Why? Why Not?
Hello readers. This blog post is intended for reader interaction.
I'm going to post a brief thought with some questions, very general. It's your job to think about it and respond. Please keep comments on the given topic. Most of all, keep it clean.
I'll post some basic questions for starters.
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I've noticed a lot lately that people are moving away from traditional Christianity and moving toward a new contemporary idea of Christianity. One in which there's no label of Christianity being a "religion," but rather a way of life. A contemporary idea where there's no need for a temple or structured liturgy in order to develop a love and relationship with Christ.
While I would agree that the Church is not simply a building where people gather, I have to ask how these new churches will maintain the message and substance of Christ and His Church? In other words, when a person or a group of people wipe out all the customs, traditions and understandings of a 2000 year old way of living; i.e., Christianity, how will they survive?
Most of these Churches are started by people or groups who want a type of raw and authentic Christianity like what's in the bible. As I once read on a Church website, "This generation is not interested in ritualistic, rhetorical religion. We want something real. Not a religion, not a church service – but an experience of the real and almighty God through the love and life of Jesus."
Yet, when one reads about the ancient church, it has more substance than one can imagine. The Ancient church had ritual, tradition and substance. In fact, the Ancient Church of Christ is still in existence. But some people are so turned off by whatever experiences they've had with traditional Christianity, that they go off and just makeup their own thing.
Here's the interactive part where you get to write! Please, don't feel limited by the questions offered on the subject. If you have thoughts on the matter, please share!
So here are some questions for starters:::
What came first, the Church or the scriptures?
Is there any value in tradition/customs? Holy Tradition?
Do you think there's a purpose for traditions?
What happens when sacred images are replaced by jumbo TVs?
What happens when solemn music is replaced by loud guitars and drums?
Is worship supposed to be a spiritual experience or an emotional/mental experience?
What's the point of Priests, Ministers, Pastors?
- Are they really needed?
- Can a church function without a seminary trained leader?
What's the harm in tradition? Is there harm?
What's the harm in modifying Christianity? Is there harm?
Does scripture or tradition (regular tradition or Holy Tradition) describe what the worship experience should be like?
Does Christian denomination dicate ones spirituality or connection to Christ? Yes or No? Explain.
I'm going to post a brief thought with some questions, very general. It's your job to think about it and respond. Please keep comments on the given topic. Most of all, keep it clean.
I'll post some basic questions for starters.
____
__________
I've noticed a lot lately that people are moving away from traditional Christianity and moving toward a new contemporary idea of Christianity. One in which there's no label of Christianity being a "religion," but rather a way of life. A contemporary idea where there's no need for a temple or structured liturgy in order to develop a love and relationship with Christ. While I would agree that the Church is not simply a building where people gather, I have to ask how these new churches will maintain the message and substance of Christ and His Church? In other words, when a person or a group of people wipe out all the customs, traditions and understandings of a 2000 year old way of living; i.e., Christianity, how will they survive?
Most of these Churches are started by people or groups who want a type of raw and authentic Christianity like what's in the bible. As I once read on a Church website, "This generation is not interested in ritualistic, rhetorical religion. We want something real. Not a religion, not a church service – but an experience of the real and almighty God through the love and life of Jesus."
Yet, when one reads about the ancient church, it has more substance than one can imagine. The Ancient church had ritual, tradition and substance. In fact, the Ancient Church of Christ is still in existence. But some people are so turned off by whatever experiences they've had with traditional Christianity, that they go off and just makeup their own thing.
Here's the interactive part where you get to write! Please, don't feel limited by the questions offered on the subject. If you have thoughts on the matter, please share!
So here are some questions for starters:::
What came first, the Church or the scriptures?
Is there any value in tradition/customs? Holy Tradition?
Do you think there's a purpose for traditions?
What happens when sacred images are replaced by jumbo TVs?
What happens when solemn music is replaced by loud guitars and drums?
Is worship supposed to be a spiritual experience or an emotional/mental experience?
What's the point of Priests, Ministers, Pastors?
- Are they really needed?
- Can a church function without a seminary trained leader?
What's the harm in tradition? Is there harm?
What's the harm in modifying Christianity? Is there harm?
Does scripture or tradition (regular tradition or Holy Tradition) describe what the worship experience should be like?
Does Christian denomination dicate ones spirituality or connection to Christ? Yes or No? Explain.
What came first, the Church or the scriptures?
ReplyDeleteThe Church came first - the Bible is written to support the Church, not to fully define it.
Is there any value in tradition/customs?
There is some value in tradition, but I believe that tradition is more for people than for God. The same reason the Israelites were told not to mix fibers - not that God truly hates fibers being mixed, but for the PEOPLE to remember they were to hold themselves to a different standard than the Pharisees. I don't believe that God is such a stickler on tradition - I believe tradition is there to help people understand and worship.
Do you think there's a purpose for traditions?
Sure. But it's not the main focus of religion.
What happens when sacred images are replaced by jumbo TVs?
Although it might decrease the solemnity and gravity of the church, I feel like having technology and stuff will make people feel more comfortable and less out of place - a room full of icons can be intimidating to a new believer. When the environment is nonthreatening, people will be more likely to be comfortable and okay with expressing themselves.
What happens when solemn music is replaced by loud guitars and drums?
People should worship in their own ways. If you require a cappella Latin music to worship, so be it. But that does not make it unacceptable to have anything else.
Is worship supposed to be a spiritual experience or an emotional/mental experience?
Can you really have a spiritual experience that is devoid of emotion or mental stimulation?
What's the point of Priests, Ministers, Pastors?
- Are they really needed?
- Can a church function without a seminary trained leader?
Of course they're needed. People need guides, and it's important to have someone who has made his life's work of helping people and studying the religion he is trying to emulate. I'm not sure they need to be accredited and seminary-trained, but it doesn't hurt.
What's the harm in tradition? Is there harm?
The harm in tradition is that people can get more caught up in following the letter of the law than in truly worshiping with a loving and accepting spirit. They can spend a long time trying to make sure they have the right icons, make sure the music is appropriate, make sure things are done according to the calendar and that they're fasting appropriately...and not focus on just coming to God in an open spirit.
What's the harm in modifying Christianity? Is there harm?
Although I believe that Christianity is a living religion and should evolve with the times (we don't put people to death for minor crimes anymore, we don't stone people, we are allowed to eat seafood and mix fibers), the base tenants of Christianity should not be modified. The basis of Christianity should stay true to the Bible, or else call it something else. People should be free to worship any way they want, but if they want to practice Christianity, it should follow the Bible so as not to lead people astray.
Does Christian denomination dicate ones spirituality or connection to Christ? Yes or No? Explain.
No. Someone with no formal religious affiliation but a loving spirit can be very connected to Christ, and a man who goes to church all his life can be spiritually dead. Which religion you follow doesn't predict which of these you'll be.
--What came first, the Church or the scriptures?
ReplyDeleteThe church came first. The Roman Catholics will say there is Holy Tradition on one hand and the Bible on the other, the Orthodox however state that the scriptures are a part of the Holy Tradition of the Church.
--Is there any value in tradition/customs? Holy Tradition?
--Do you think there's a purpose for traditions? (I'm answering these two together)
Absolutely. Holy Tradition is the body of truths that the Church holds, it is the web of theology that constitutes the tenets of our faith and it is the practices that go with them. It is these that Christ traditioned (proper translation of the Greek) the Apostles the and Apostles traditioned the church.
Now a distinction must be made between Big “T” Tradition (aka Holy Tradition) and little “t” tradition. Little “t” tradition (sometimes referred to as customs) is an enrichment of the faith from the cyclical interaction between the church and a culture a local church grows up in, they are not absolute however. Whereas Tradition is fixed and an absolute reality and truth, tradition can change with culture and time, the iconostasis is a perfect example of this. A full iconostasis is relatively young in the church, only appearing a few hundred years ago. In the ancient church a templon (a low rail) and curtains were used. Over time the templon transformed into what we see today.
--What happens when sacred images are replaced by jumbo TVs?
Why cant we have both? I feel that technology can have a place in the church. St. George (Coptic) in Toledo, displays the text for the liturgy on 6 to 8 flat screen TV's hanging from the ceiling. Also can't people follow along with the liturgy on their iPads? Now on a serious note, icons are a window into heaven, scripture in picture, a realization of the imperceptible, an unveiling of the unseen. Nothing can replace them, most certainly not a jumbo tv.
--What happens when solemn music is replaced by loud guitars and drums?
Simply put, worship becomes entertainment. It is true that every culture has a unique take on the music of the Church (lookup an Ethopian liturgy on youtube if you want a perfect example of what I mean), however the work of the people must always be “reverent” not solemn (people tend to confuse the two). As one person put it, worship is to realize that you are before the throne of God. God dictated what constitutes proper worship to the Jews in the Old Testament, those practices continued in the Church. Now, cultures may have variations, but all follow the same nature and structure, and are all are icons of the Heavenly Worship.
--Is worship supposed to be a spiritual experience or an emotional/mental experience?
I disagree with your dichotomy. Does the spirit worship God alone? Does your mind or emotions? No, the entire person worships God. It is a full-human experience.
Part 2
ReplyDelete--What's the point of Priests, Ministers, Pastors?
-- Are they really needed?
-- Can a church function without a seminary trained leader?
In the ancient church, presbyters (the word which priest and pastor come from) were called elders. The structure of the church then and now are somewhat different. The real question is not what is the point of a presbyter but what is the point of the Bishop? The Bishop is the icon of Christ in the church, just as Christ is surrounded by his apostles, so also is the Bishop by the elders of the local church. And the deacons around them as the hosts of angels. Again, this all comes back to the liturgy being an icon of the heavenly liturgy. Over time as the Christian population grew, it was no longer practical to have all the believers in a large city attend the cathedral where the Bishop was enthroned. As such, at first first the gifts would be consecrated at the cathedral and then taken to the nearby parishes. Yet even that became impractical as dioceses grew larger. Thus was born the presbyters as we know them today. They act on behalf of the bishop as an extension of his authority. To say that a Priest is the icon of Christ in the Church is incorrect in my opinion, more appropriate would be to say that a Priest in the Church (modern times) is an icon of the Bishop in the Church, who is an icon of Christ in the Church. A diocese cannot be without a bishop (that is part of what makes the church Catholic), a parish however can be without a priest. However the gifts cannot be offered, for there is no Priest serving on behalf of the Bishop. Technically a priest doesn't have to be trained in a seminary. I've heard cases of Bishops consecrating first and sending them to seminary later. In the ancient church going up through the ranks of the clergy used to be the methodology not seminary. The minor order of the acolyte used to be the early church's version of an an inquiry class for the priesthood. St. Photios for example went from laymen to Patriarch in a week!
--What's the harm in tradition? Is there harm?
If you get caught up in tradition and it makes you loose sight of HolyTradition, then you're in trouble. Holy Tradition on the other hand can never do any harm.
--What's the harm in modifying Christianity? Is there harm?
No harm as long as it is a natural growth of the church and occurs in tradition and not Holy Tradition.
--Does scripture or tradition (regular tradition or Holy Tradition) describe what the worship experience should be like?
See this article for a cursory overview...
http://theorthodoxcatechumen.wordpress.com/2012/09/16/the-eternal-liturgy-vs-contemporary-worship/
--Does Christian denomination dicate ones spirituality or connection to Christ? Yes or No? Explain.
This is a loaded question, I don't intend to answer it. KentBoy, you probably already know what my answer would be!